Starting an Engaging Worship Discussion
What an opportunity it is to open a discussion here. There are already two members in this group who were central in changing my attitude about the depth and value of worship.
Each helped me realize that worship was more, and remains more, than what I thought in the past. It is not ritual by rote; nor blindly following tradition; nor keeping up appearances or fulfilling social obligation by attending services on Sundays.
The focus on God, the dramatic experience, investing energy in how the space looks, the invitation to participate - all this connects with God in life-changing ways. I still learn, day by day, how to experience God’s love in the community of faith.
Now onto particulars about where some of us happen to be going with worship at this time.
My church, Creator Lutheran, is exploring new worship possibilities for this fall, perhaps adding a service. We currently have one Sunday service. We have past experiences with two services that followed a similar liturgical style and format. Now, our newly formed team is discussing something different, that may address other needs within our community that we have learned to recognize in the past three years.
Can we start this discussion with questions?
- Does your congregation have multiple worship services and, if so, are those worships different from one another?
- What process do you use to learn how your congregation focuses on, and connects to, God? Surveys? One on one, or small group sessions? How this is reflected in your current worship?
- What are the most meaningful parts of the worship service for your congregation?
- Has your congregation gone through a similar process in adding other worship opportunities you would care to bring to this discussion?
- Do you have wisdom to share that would benefit our current process? Anything you would avoid that might lead to needless frustrations?
- Are there any helpful resources you have found that our team should reference?
I look forward to sharing thoughts on our practices, designs and experiences of worship.
adding a worship experience
Obviously we're hoping to add a worship experience to our fall schedule. In years past Creator has had two identical worship services. We do a blended service with some praise music, some global music, mostly hymns and songs that are familiar and expected. We do a different liturgy every week. My dream for our something new is to add a worship experience that is new and vibrant and alive and different that what is typically expected. We've done cool stuff in worship including community paintings and collage (and other artsy stuff). I'm hoping to add an education piece to worship. Do any of your congregations have "Sunday School" during one of the worship services? Lets share ideas and get the conversations going. Thanks for sharing!
Expanding Worship at Saint Mark
This is such a great forum for sharing ideas, learning from each other, and thinking more collaboratively about how we approach worship! I look forward to hearing from other Cafe members, and sharing a few of my own thoughts on this topic as well.
At Saint Mark in Salem, we are going to embark on a two-service configuration for Sunday mornings starting this September. If you've been to Saint Mark on a Sunday morning, you know there is already a wonderful traditional service happening. So why add another service? For us, it is about offering connection to people who may need some variety. The feeling has been that not everybody feels drawn or connected into a traditional sanctuary service. So I am helping with the planning and implementation of the new service, which will be in a different physical space, with a setting that will emphasize interpersonal connection, use piano and guitar as the primary music instruments, and draw from a wide range of contemporary music sources as well as a contemporary treatment to traditional hymns. I envision that for starters, our music will have a strong similarity to my past experience at Creator in Clackamas. I smile every time I think of my friends there.
At Saint Mark, Pastor Charles Mantey sees this as a wonderful opportunity to explore nuances to the rich liturgical heritage we have in the Lutheran church. I love that, because I think that's a signature of Lutheran worship, and we need not abandon it just because we're doing something more "modern." So, this new service will keep the shape that is the essence of liturgy: we gather, we hear the word, we share the meal, we are blessed and sent. "Lectio Divina," for instance, will be an overlay for some of these services.
Probably the most important thing happening right now is enlisting the help and involvement of congregational volunteers. That's a little bit tricky because people need more of a picture of what the service will look or sound like. They're also still thinking through their own logistics of the Sunday morning schedule. There's a big difference for people whether they're starting worship at 8:30 or staring at 11:00. So, some of this will settle out simply due to their own schedule preferences.
It's a big deal to change Sunday schedules at most churches. Because of this, we're doing a lot of communication, providing opportunity for people to give input, assuring a sense of orderliness and structure, and making sure that everybody feels valued in the process. An absolutely vital and wonderful thing has been the support of the leadership within the congregation. We've taken a very intentional pace of working with and through the Worship and Music Committee as well as the Church Council. I can't say enough about the great support this has gotten from the music and worship leaders, Judy Linder and Tim Bibelheimer, and of course Pastor Charles Mantey. Other folks have been great about offering ideas to help launch this new service as well.
I'd love to hear what other folks are thinking about worship...
Space, Time, Variety and the Essence of Liturgy
Great to see you as part of this group Kelly, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I know of at least three churches represented here that are considering moving from one to two Sunday services or returning to that format this coming September.
Creator does not have the traditional sanctuary space like St. Mark, so both our services will be held in the same space but at Creator, the logistics you mentioned regarding the choice of starting times for each service is certainly an important consideration here.
Our goal is that attendance of both our services be somewhat balanced. If historical attendance is a predictor, 11:00 is too late to fit into many of our members Sunday schedules. Pushing the first service worship starting time earlier is a tough schedule fit for many in the congegation as well.
We are currently considering an earlier start for the second worship and leaving our first worship service starting time at 9:00. This means doing something different than our past when we scheduled Sunday School and Adult Education between services. That is why Pastor Dayle hoped to add an education piece to worship and asked ”Do any of your congregations have "Sunday School" during one of the worship services?”
Working with the ‘essence of liturgy’ is another factor in the starting time. In the past Creator services were identical. Now, as we consider a modified format, we are exploring what the essence of liturgy means for us. We may offer a somewhat modified liturgy at the second service together with another piece where the children go to Sunday School during the service and the adults engage in a worship activity that may be new to Creator.
We also empathize with you on learning congregational needs. "Knowing people need more of a picture of what the service will look or sound like", and incorporating that with the knowledge of what Creator can meaningfully offer together with what has worked in the past, is tricky for us as well. Initially our worship team thought about a congregational survey (and we are interested in what other churches asked in this kind of survey) but, for the present, one on one conversation has worked best for us.
We are also attending worship services at other churches for ideas and inspiration. If you know of a service that it would be helpful for us to attend near the Portland Metro area, please reply to this to let us know.
A second service
How seriously have you considered doing a service NOT on a Sunday morning? Would a true alternative perhaps include the possibility of a completely different day/time? What are the pros/cons?
We actually did try
We actually did try Wednesdays for a summer and it really didn't take off. We had about 7 to 12 on Wednesdays and most had been at the Sunday service. My hope in adding another Sunday service is in answering the request of folks who just cannot do a 9:00 service. It's too early for some. We are also struggling with Sunday School on Sunday morning... I know of at least one congregation that has moved all of their Christian ed to Wednesday nights. There's no easy answer here. Sure love hearing all the thoughts and ideas.
what does Non-Sunday Worship mean?
What about an off-site location?
What about worship that's not like what we're used to?
What are people looking for? Seems specious to do a non-Sunday (or a Sunday additional service) service if there is not an expressed need.
I guess a fundamental question to start with is what is the expressed need?
Experience with Worship Outside Sunday Morning
Any stories this group has to share about worship outside of Sunday morning?
For a time Creator hosted a Sunday evening, joint Episcopalian / Lutheran worship. Many people in our congregation considered attending. In the end, however, that service was for those already in the habit of evening worship and our congregation, for the most part, did not change their morning "habit". Of course, there may have been other factors involved.
The pros, from our experience, was more time for community interaction before worship and less rush afterwards. There was always a potluck beforehand for those who wanted to share a meal together. "Off-time" worship made better use of the building as an alternative to the Sunday crowding. The main con was the number of people who actually came to worship.
Creator's worship group recently attended a Jazz worship at Augustana and it looked like there were a few regulars that evening. I believe there are other churches who have a Wednesday worship. Creator has Wednesday evening seasonal worships.
So, the question goes out. Are there experiences here to share on how to make weekly, non-Sunday morning, worship attractive to a large part of the congregation?
What are the pros and cons of a worship at times other than Sunday morning?
Off Sunday worship
We tried a mid-week worship service at Atonement Lutheran in Newport, OR when I was a pastor there. It was truly alternative (we sat in chairs up around the altar; no regular musician; Bible lesson focused and quite conversational with a hands on component. There was no 'sermon' or 'right answer.') The group started small and stayed small. What I learned from the effort was this:
1) Build your "worshipping community" before you start the service. Who are you doing it for? Do they want a mid-week sevice?
2) One or two younger folks who were on the edges of church (at best) really liked this. It was intimate, conversational, and didn't carry the negative baggage of regular church for them. (See #1 above.)
3) Most of those who attended were regular Sunday attenders wanting to support the new effort. So, they were doing double duty. Some liked the new format enough that it didni't seem like a dupliation of Sunday. Some - as "regular" church members - didn't like the lack of "closure" or answers. I.e. what the unchurched folks really liked they didn't. (See #1 above.)
4) Whether it be a mid-week or second Sunday service I'm really not a fan of "build it and they will come." Studies suggest that more services provide options for more people and you get more in worship overall. I don't doubt this. However, my thinking is that a truely alternative worship service needs to be shaped with potential participants in mind. They need to own the effort and help shape it. The real work is relational, building your community up front. I'm not sure that worship is the door for getting new members. You have to form real relationships with people before they'll want to worship with you.
Appreciate you sharing your experiences
Thanks for your response, Bishop Dave. You make excellent points to be considered when adding a service.
We are in current discussions with our present worshipping community. Many would fall into the group you described as the Atonement members doing “double duty”, particularly if the proposed additional service had an abbreviated or no formal liturgy and did not take place Sunday morning.
The mid-week worship you are describing responded to a different need in Atonement’s worshipping community. There well may be a need like that which could be served in the Creator community. However, the initial impetus for adding this service was to reach out, and be more invitational, to those who want a later worship time. There is also an educational piece that could be addressed. The idea was adding an additional opportunity for everyone who worships on Sunday morning, not necessarily to attract new members in the door.
We considered in our talks, up to now, potential tweaks to the duration of certain parts of the liturgy but we operated under the general assumption it would be liturgical worship. As Pastor Dayle said in an earlier response here, “cool stuff” is often introduced at Creator worship, so Creator is open to new “pieces” added to worship. The idea here was to keep part of worship “fresh”, rather than developing a truly alternative worship from scratch.
What you wrote does touch on concerns several members have expressed. Their thought is that even worshipping at different times potentially divides the Creator community. With Atonement's liturgical and non-liturgical services, how did those attending the midweek service, and who didn’t attend Sundays, feel about the Sunday worshippers and vice versa? Was there a sense of one community or, perhaps given the numbers, did it not make much difference?
Another concern I heard is that one worship may become more "fashionable" or a better worship service to attend if services divurge in format.
Worship planning does have multiple moving pieces.
"Space Always Wins"
Indeed there are a great many elements to worship that can make or break it. One thing that I learned from a professor of mine at PLTS (Micheal Aune) was that "space always wins". I was with the Bishop at Atonement when we did those alternative services. They were successful in their way (met some spiritual needs, but did not grow the congregation) and one of the reasons for this was that we altered the space to fit our design. While we held it in the sanctuary we altered the space to make it a safe and intimate place. This really facilitated the group in their ability to overcome their reservations and really share in the experience. While many knew one another well those that didn't quickly joined into the service in a meaningful way.
I want to encourage people to think about the spaces they have and how they can help shape a service. Sometimes this is a benefit and sometimes a hinderance, but beware you are not trying to fit a round peg in a square whole. For instance, a well lit open space does not lend itself to an intimate sharing experience, though it would make for an excellent praise experience. This may seem obvious on the face of it, but the wrong space can kill an otherwise well planned worship experience.
Try and let the space inform your worship. While it might not be what you want, perhaps it can give you new ideas and ways of reaching God's people.
I couldn't agree with you
I couldn't agree with you more Bishop. Everything is based on relationships. It is difficult to share ourselves with people we don't know well, imagine how difficult it is for someone outside of our church to want to come and worship with us if they don't know us. I know that I don't like to sit in church next to someone I don't know. I like worshiping with people I do know. Does that make sense?
Makes sense to me
Of course it makes sense. But that is one of the barriers we have to help people overcome as worship planners. Some of that can be done before the service, and some of it can be done by preparing the worship environment. Though I have a notion that sometimes you just need a high ratio of extroverts. :)
Talk to Leah
Pr Leah Doerfler at Immanuel, Silverton has been doing a mid-week meet at a local tav -- she might call it a Bible study, you'd have to ask her. I think they were (are?) doing a Sat. night on campus worship, too.
Thanks for both your responses
I know there were some plans for multiple congregations to modify or add to their worship formats is September. I would be interested to hear how other worships are being received.
Creator is currently trying a slightly abbreviated liturgy called Creator Fusion. It is intended to give us more time for congregational expressions regarding the readings, the message or the importance of a day (for example, we shared personal memories of 9/11 on that Sunday balanced with listening to our Pastor give us Christian perspectives to ponder and that some of us may want to aspire to.)
Beyond the "fusion" of adult education with worship, there is a Sunday School "fusion" with worship as well. The children work outside the sanctuary on a creative project immediately after the Pastor gives the Children's message. They come back in when they are done and their art contribution is added to a larger "canvas" in the sanctuary. This larger canvas relates to this month's theme of Creation.
So far the congregational response is positive and enthusiastic.
Engaging worship
Sorry this post is coming so late, just entered into the soulcafe universe.
We here at St Paul in Castle Rock have been doing expereintial worship for 16 months now. When I came to this community, one of the desires was to make the 2nd service time less "Lutheran Lite" (not my words). A task force was gathered from those interested in creating change, and we made an evaluation of the current service. We looked at what was working well and what needed improvement; order of worship, use of space, and music; and what in all of this was negotiable and non-negotiable (ie word, sacraments). The task force also looked at several books and websites to help in the decision processes (see below). After 6 weeks of discussion and evaluation the TF recommended changes to type the of music that would be used, to simplifying the order of service, greater use of existing technologies, and to how the space would be used.
Out of this came the desire to conduct a monthly experiential worship service. The TF (which has since become a commitee, go fiqure) gathers monthly, reviews the lectionary texts for the week in question and then plans a service appropriate to the text. (ie this week we'll be doing a 1st person narative from Mary'y perspective, along with combining a "pageant" the includes the traditional nativity scene. afterwords the congregation will be asked several questions to reflect on and possible discuss with their neighbor) We've had a pretty good response from the community, especially from the youth, about the changes made to the normal late service, as well as the expereintal ones.
Our biggest challenge at present is finding and funding a worship leader for the music side. Its one thing to have modern praise music transmited by CD player, and quite another to have live musicians playing the same music. Unfortunatly, this is a small community that has 12 churches, and so the pool of qualified musicians is quite small. This is one area that we continually pray about.
I hope this has helped, even if it is late.
Pr Bob Sinclair
Bibliography:
Emerging Worship - Dan Kimball
Liquid Church - Pete Ward
How (Not) to Speak of God - Peter Rollins
Liturgical Art for a Media Culture - Eileen Crowley
http://www.experientialworship.com
http://seedstuff.blogspot.com
http://www.textweek.com (this has a lot of different resources to access)
Experiential Worship
Your reply is appreciated, Bob. This discussion may have started from a particular need but I believe all the members here are interested in engaging worship beyond one particular circumstance they find themselves in at present.
Creator did not add a service as was planned for the fall. Some proposed worship changes were tried at Creator's one Sunday service. The changes were appreciated and well-received.
The reason for not adding another service was that when there were two services the congregation did not always see other members they wanted to on Sunday, when there was a balance of attendance between services and that worship felt uncomfortable when there were only a few members at one service.
I attended the Sunday morning worship added at St. Mark in Salem. Granted it was a special day (St. Mark's service celebrating their vote to become an RIC congregation). Also, the liturgy used was written by a friend of mine and performed by another. Those may have been contributing reasons yet I experienced many memorable moments that I think was beyond all that.
Regarding the musicians, praise music performed by congregation members was one of the worship changes Creator tried successfully this last fall. Obviously it is hard to know how the determination is being made in regards to "qualified" musicians in your community's pool but encouraging congregation members who may have trepidation about performing and giving them a chance may provide new opportunities. At Creator, our members who took up that challenge performed music that moved them. They communicated their enthusiasm for that music and an energy to the congregation.
There are others who are part of this discussion who may have additional insights into what you are praying about.
Your links were also appreciated. Please feel free to describe the particular experiential worship moments you found that engaged the St. Paul community.